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Frost Fails in Fun, Forgetful Finale. Agent Carter: “Hollywood Ending”

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Frost Fails in Fun, Forgetful Finale. Agent Carter: “Hollywood Ending”

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Frost Fails in Fun, Forgetful Finale. Agent Carter: “Hollywood Ending”

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Published on March 2, 2016

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Agent Carter Hollywood Ending

Musical numbers aside, Agent Carter has spent half of its second season in a dark, dark place. The finale, “Hollywood Ending” attempts to recapture the usual frivolity of the show, and the sunniness of this particular season, but it does so at the expense of a satisfying story.

“Hollywood Ending” essentially exists as an epilogue to the events of this season. Wilkes finishes his explosion from the closing moments of the previous episode and, hey, it turns out he’s fine and Vernon Masters is finally done flailing around as a useless villain. (Seriously, did any of his plans actually work?) Satisfied, everyone goes home and the story goes on a bit of an apology tour. Jarvis and Peggy are still falling over each other in their rush to get their relationship back to normal. It’s very “You’re the best.” “No, you’re the best.” of them, and James D’Arcy elevates the material by adding some surprising shade and depth to this interaction. He plays Jarvis as nearly a caricature of himself from the beginning of the season, happy and bouncy, trying just a touch too hard to defy the trauma that he’s endured.

Agent Carter Hollywood Ending
That blur is your husband, I think…

Jason Wilkes, finally back to normal, apologizes for being a total idiot for the second half of the season. Peggy gives him an easy out, claiming that the zero matter warped his mind, but Wilkes isn’t that kind of guy, confessing that no, the zero matter doesn’t do that and both he and Whitney are fully responsible for their actions. It’s a noble confession, but it feels a bit too tidy. I was hoping that Jason and Peggy would have a more substantial talk about Wilkes’ actions, because both of them are in a social class that is under significant pressure to act perfectly around others, or else.

Peggy and Jason are borderline superhuman in regards to her capability and his intelligence, but both have to fight for opportunities where they are allowed to express those qualities. Peggy is much farther along in this process, which puts her in a perfect position to act as a sympathetic ear to Jason’s internal struggle. It would have been amazing to hear them jokingly trade stories of unfair treatment, or of times when they didn’t fit the expectations of others. It would have been great to hear Peggy say outright that she forgives Wilkes for pulling a gun on her, because people in their position shouldn’t be expected to be perfect all the time. Having it said outright would have given some depth to the dissolution of Peggy’s romantic feelings, as well, letting us know that she still felt obligated to champion Jason even though his pointing a gun at her had, you know, permanently killed the mood.

Agent Carter Hollywood Ending
Oof, mood unkilled MOOD UNKILLED

Agent Carter has missed quite a few storytelling opportunities in its handling of Wilkes, honestly, and “Hollywood Ending” isn’t able to rectify that. Aside from the commonalities between Jason and Peggy, the series also never quite gets around to the pairing I was anticipating between Wilkes and Samberley. At first I considered the up-jumping of Aloysius’ character as a gag–a response to an external criticism of the show’s handling of scientist-type characters–but Samberley remained central to the story and as the season wore on I began to think that there was another reason for his presence. Namely, as a foil to Jason Wilkes.

Because damn is Samberley one entitled S.O.B. He is correct to insist on his visibility within the organization, but he starts not by asking for some consideration, but by jumping straight to threatening the organization, pointing out that he has opportunities elsewhere. Samberley never offers solutions to the group, he just complains about the work he’s being asked to do even when he’s really excited to be doing that work. (That contemptuous “I can build it in two!” from last episode, for example.) Later, Samberley sells out Peggy and Sousa to Jack in an instant, only thinking of his own survival. There’s also an implication that his resentment, which he maintains throughout the season, is curdling into something dark and violent, since the only things he is inspired to invent by himself are devices that hurt people, like the memory eraser and the taser bomb.

Wilkes, in comparison, would never be allowed to do any of that. Jason says outright that he doesn’t have opportunities elsewhere. And if Jason never offered solutions to the group, or his former employer Isodyne, he’d be out of a job at best, and forever incorporeal at worst. Wilkes faces very real consequences in regards to his job and his life that Samberley simply doesn’t, all because of the color of his skin, and I can’t believe that “Hollywood Ending” didn’t include Wilkes setting Samberley straight on his entitled attitude, especially since the episode includes the overarching SCIENCE DAD! figure of Stark, who could be considered the ultimate arbiter between the usefulness of Samberley vs. Wilkes.

Agent Carter Hollywood Ending
Where is Samberley right now and how many devils dancing with pitchforks do you think he sees?

This season’s constant sidelining of Wilkes has contributed to an overall feeling of decentralization in Agent Carter‘s second season. The first season had a serialized plot that kept it running, but it also had two big emotional questions that it had to answer about its main character: How will Peggy get past Captain America’s death, and will her co-workers ever see her as a peer of equal status? The finale of Agent Carter‘s first season answers both of these questions in a way that is tied into the season’s adventures, but the show’s second season never quite developed those questions for Peggy, leaning on a relatively quiet “will they or won’t they” romance subplot instead.

This wasn’t quite as troubling in the beginning of this new season, though, because our antagonist Whitney Frost came out of the gate so strongly, presenting us with a story that resonated with Wilkes’ and Peggy’s. Whitney was someone who was almost superhumanly capable, but forced to hide those capabilities in order to meet the ideals of others. Unlike Wilkes and Peggy, Whitney was comfortable using the ideals of others for her own ends, and once she was granted actual superhuman abilities, it was fascinating to see how she would transition into the open use of her capabilities.

Unfortunately, we never quite got to see that. The second half of the season, perhaps detecting that its antagonist’s story was way more interesting than its protagonist’s, throttled back on depicting a three-dimensional Whitney Frost in favor of having her play a more general threat. But making sure Whitney’s story wouldn’t upstage Peggy’s didn’t automatically make Peggy’s story more interesting, and the show went too far in its effort to make Frost a more miniscule presence. “Hollywood Ending,” in fact, has to backpedal and flesh out Ken Marino’s character just to provide the motivation for getting Whitney back into the story.

Agent Carter Hollywood Ending

And once it does, “Hollywood Ending” doesn’t use Whitney as anything other than a plot device. What is our takeaway from Whitney’s story supposed to be? That two-time Oscar-nominated actresses shouldn’t be given superpowers? That the powerless shouldn’t be allowed to use power? That restricting someone’s personal growth because of their gender and race can destroy their potential to do good? Probably that last one, obviously, but we don’t know for sure because Whitney never gets to talk to the show’s main characters beyond the issuance of general threats. It would have been great if this had been a clash of ideologies–Whitney’s worldview vs Peggy’s worldview–especially since the show took the time early on to point out the parallels between their upbringing. (Dottie even realizes this during her short time on the show.)

Whitney was the perfect character to challenge Peggy on her action and/or inaction and “Hollywood Ending” had an opportunity to ask Peggy a big emotional question: What is Peggy doing to make the world a better place? Is she preserving a diseased status quo or is she growing it into something better? This is a question that we know Peggy gets asked at some point in her life, because the answer is S.H.I.E.L.D., but the Whitney that shows up in “Hollywood Ending” isn’t capable of asking this question; having been so de-evolved by the show’s writers that she can do little more than yell at people to leave her alone and get shot.

Agent Carter Hollywood Ending

And sure, “Hollywood Ending” is fun–we get hovercars and mustard and an endlessly dangling Sousa–but that’s like complimenting a key lime pie for being tart. Fun is what you expect from Agent Carter, but a story is what you need from Agent Carter, and “Hollywood Ending” doesn’t deliver.

 

Thoughts:

  • Hayley Atwell pointed out this week that her new show commitment to ABC would still give her time to film a third season of Agent Carter. Sure, I’m bummed that this season ended so poorly, but Agent Carter is still the best Marvel show on the air. To quote Dottie: “I. Want. That.”
  • The second season’s ratings don’t preclude a third season. Pretty much all the dramas aired on Tuesday nights are in that ratings bracket, and Agent Carter is hardly the lowest among them.
  • Let us take a moment of stifled laughter for Lunch Orderin’ Jack Thompson, who is now and forever Murdered Jack Thompson thanks to a post-ish-credits scene.
  • And yeah, I think he’s dead for good. He was bleeding out pretty quickly there and even if hotel staff showed up immediately to boot him out of the room they’d still only have a few minutes to stop the bleeding. Maybe not even that.
  • Seems likely that the gunman was hired by the head of Roxxon. That dude’s still around, and he must surely hate Peggy and the SSR by now.
  • The list of things I don’t care about includes the file that the mystery gunman took, but if a third season was going to use it, then it’d be a good way to raise the aforementioned question of whether Peggy is actually doing good in the world.
  • Did zero matter actually have a voice or was it Head Cal all along? Or is Head Cal just the form that zero matter takes in Whitney’s head?
  • The theater marquee next to the SSR’s headquarters changes from “Whitney Frost in Tales of Suspense” to “Mary Kane in Midnight Nightscape” after Whitney is locked away.
  • “Revealing” zero matter as a cancer that ate an entire parallel universe reminds me of the cancer storyline they gave to Mar-Vell in the now-classic Captain Marvel comics. It also makes me think that the Reality Infinity Stone would make short work of it.
  • I want the third season to show Peggy and Sousa and Howard forming a proto-S.H.I.E.L.D. with Wilkes, Jarvis and, yes, Dottie as their black ops muscle. I imagine that Dottie is currently out in the world searching for a purpose, and would find a perverse thrill in being tasked with doing Peggy’s dirty work.
  • Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. and Alan Brown return next week! Wouldn’t it be cool if they did a crossover episode where Coulson (only Coulson) gets thrown back in time to meet Peggy?
  • Finally… you and me both, Sousa.

Agent Carter Hollywood Ending

Chris Lough writes about superheroes and fantasy and stuff for Tor.com.

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ChristopherLBennett
9 years ago

I don’t think “Head Cal” had anything to do with Zero Matter. I think it was just that when Whitney lost the Zero Matter, when she lost the power she’d craved so desperately, her mind snapped, and she’s created a fantasy of a Cal who’s more loving and supportive of her than the real Cal ever was.

 

The finale was fun, but I agree that the Whitney situation was resolved too easily. She should’ve posed more of a threat, been more of an obstacle to overcome. For one thing, it’s no fun when the heroes’ plan goes pretty much exactly as intended; the only problem they had was their inability to close the rift after they very easily and predictably dealt with Whitney. For another thing, Whitney was a such a rich and engaging character that it’s a shame she just trailed off into monomania here. It was quite an anticlimax. Not that I object to the ending — it’s better than killing her off, and Manfredi’s reaction is rather poignant. But I wish she’d gotten something more impressive to do on the way to that ending.

And the Arena Club is still there, weakened but still a factor. I guess I shouldn’t have expected them to overthrow the rich white patriarchy, but it’s another thing that feels a bit anticlimactic. Presumably it’s a thread that will continue if there’s a season 3, given the mystery of the pin/key Thompson found. I wonder if the person who took the file of trumped-up charges against Peggy is with the Club or is a harbinger of some new evil. Although you may be right that Ray Wise’s character is behind him.

I did love Peggy’s “revenge is sweet” moment of asking Jack to take the lunch orders — and Jack swallowing his pride and accepting that responsibility without complaint is the first truly manly thing he ever did in the show. Too bad it was also the last.

Avatar
9 years ago

I don’t care

 

Peggy & Sousa

 

I don’t care about the rest of it.

 

I GOT MY PEGGY AND SOUSA

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Quill
9 years ago

It’s weird how this season felt like it could have been about forty five minutes shorter. Probably it’s due to the extremely slow pacing of the climax here after two pretty good episodes with high stakes last week, but I think it also has to do with the emphasis on the love triangle, which was never terribly exciting (Peggy will end up with one or the other or neither. Both are nice guys, the barriers between her and either are situational and will either resolve with time or won’t…) and the flashbacks, which were really good on Whitney’s end and absolutely failed to deliver for Peggy. We already <i>know</i> Peggy, hearing that she tried to refuse the call isn’t actually helping us know her better right now.

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9 years ago

You want Dottie to work with Peggy?  Remember when she escaped, casually murdering a cop?  Peggy and Dottie are opposites, they will never work together.

ChristopherLBennett
9 years ago

@4/wlangendorf: You could’ve said much the same about Buffy and Spike, and he ended up on her side eventually. And he’s hardly the only villain whose popularity with audiences and/or chemistry with the lead character led to a redemption arc.

Also, it’s worth remembering that Dottie is a product of the same Soviet program that produced Black Widow decades later. Natasha ended up switching sides and working for SHIELD, so it’s not completely impossible that Dottie could too.

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9 years ago

I enjoyed the finale, and it had a lot of great moments.  But it did feel a bit rushed to me at times, and the solution to the big problem that they faced all season felt squeezed in among all the other goings on.  I thought that seeing Whitney’s struggles reflected from the gangster’s perspective gave some poignancy to her demise (Ken Marino deserves kudos for his performance).  From most character’s perspectives, she was a villain; from his, she was a victim.  She was a great antagonist, and came close to stealing the show a number of times during the season (and Wynn Everett deserves a lot of credit for that).

I thought Peggy and Jason’s romantic issues were wrapped up a bit too conveniently, and he certainly got back to normal in too pat a fashion.  I felt sorry for Jack, who finally found his footing, only to be killed in a postscript to the whole proceedings.  I thought Jarvis got cheated in the last episode.  He spent the season trying to become more of a man of action, but with his arms raised so high when held at gunpoint, and the exaggerated way he put down the mustard, he looked like there had been no growth at all, and he was there for comic relief, and the same kind of thing occurred at the end when he wanted to drive Peg to the airport.  I did love his wife, Ana, and hope if the show returns, she returns.  Speaking of that, I hope Rose and Samberly come back, her because she is so competent, and him because he isn’t.

And, like Aeryl, I am delighted that Peg and Daniel got together at the end.  I have been rooting for their relationship since the first season.

I certainly hope they come back for at least one more season, as there is still more I want to see about the earliest days of SHIELD.  And Haley Atwell has been so, so good as Peggy Carter, it would be a shame not to see her in that role any more.

And thanks to Chris for the excellent reviews all season.  That last image of Sousa, and the comment that accompanied it, made me laugh out loud.

Gerry O'Brien
Gerry O'Brien
9 years ago

A big YES! to a Agent Carter/Agents of SHIELD crossover!

Love the idea of Coulson (only) traveling back to the 1940s to fight alongside Peggy.

Still hoping Infinity War sees a version of Peggy permanently brought to the present.

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Athreeren
9 years ago

Am I the only one who noticed that the file is about M. Carter? Up until now, we could believe it was a fake and the M stood for Margaret, but who would go through the trouble of killing to get a fake file? It’s obviously about her brother Michael, and Peggy will have to restore her dead brother’s honour in season 3.

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Diane
9 years ago

@8, I totally agree that the M. Carter is actually Michael Carter, not Margaret Carter. But consider the timeline! Thompson said the file showed what Peggy was up to in 1944 in Europe. According to the flashback episode, Michael died in 1940, leading Peggy to “take up his flag”. If that file is about Michael, that means Michael didn’t actually die in 1940.

Further proof that Michael didn’t actually die in 1940: Sharon Carter’s existence. If Sharon Carter is the great-niece of Peggy Carter in the MCU, then she has to be related to Peggy through a brother. Otherwise she’d have a sisters’ married name or she’d be a Sousa (I will continue to believe Sousa is the canon husband until proven wrong). Peggy only has one brother. Michael has to be alive or Sharon Carter couldn’t exist.

If we get a season 3, Peggy’s going to learn that her brother was never dead at all. She wasn’t able to save Steve, but there’s still hope for Michael!

ChristopherLBennett
9 years ago

@10/Diane: Well, technically, Emily Van Camp’s character is known only as Sharon. Her last name was only revealed in promotional materials, so it’s not necessarily canonical. Of course she’s meant to be Sharon Carter, but there’s room for them to change that if they wanted.

And it’s not completely impossible for a child to use their mother’s surname — say, if the parents got divorced and the mother got custody of the children. Or, hey, maybe Peggy’s sister married someone who was also named Carter. It’s not that rare a surname.

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9 years ago

@8 – I read a theory on another site that Michael may even be the assassin that retrieved the file! Not really dead and possibly an adversary in the hoped for Season 3!

Farewell, Departin’ Jack Thompson.

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Curtis Kendall
9 years ago

It’s funny – I often roll my eyes at what I perceive to be manufactured action or drama on a show (or rather the often implausible twists or contrivances that cause drama or lead to action).  However in the finale where the hero’s plan works flawlessly the first time the result is a bit dull.  Be careful of what you ask for.  Definitely not the best episode of the season but I still enjoyed it.  Really hope we get a third season.

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Karen K
9 years ago

 So they put in the bit about the lapel pin/key and the stolen file so there will be something to work with in a Season 3.  Red herrings?  And Dottie is still out there.  So hoping there is a Season 3.

Killing off Jack was disappointing after Peggy had called him a good man.  I would have liked to see his redemption. Chad Michael Murray not available for a Season 3?

Sousa going out to turn off the rift generator was really stupid, if only because he’s the slowest of everyone there.  Was it supposed to be an act of heroism to show he’s ‘worthy’ of Peggy?

Also stupid was the way everyone grabbed on to Peggy or the person in front of them and no one went for the rope.  But it gave Howard a good line.

Loved seeing Howard flirt with Rose.

They may have to kill off Sousa or at least break Peggy and him up.  He may be the least chauvinistic of the men in the series (except maybe Jarvis), but I can’t see him working under Peggy when she becomes head of SHIELD and still being in a relationship with her.

@10.  I could see Peggy’s brother not being dead but so deep under cover that he couldn’t get out at the end of the war. 

@12  But let’s not bring him back as as bad guy.  Too Bucky.

And much as I like Whitney s a villain and could see her escaping the asylum, if there’s a Season 3, we need a plot that doesn’t involve black matter.  But a Season 4 could be about Howard trying to harness black matter and them having to bring in Whitney to help clean up his mess.

 

ChocolateRob
9 years ago

@14 Sousa wasn’t the slowest one there because he was the one who just up and did it whilst everyone else was busy thinking about it. But yeah they should have grabbed the hose rather than each other.

ChristopherLBennett
9 years ago

@14/Karen K: “Loved seeing Howard flirt with Rose.”

And I’m willing to believe he was sincere about it.

“They may have to kill off Sousa or at least break Peggy and him up.  He may be the least chauvinistic of the men in the series (except maybe Jarvis), but I can’t see him working under Peggy when she becomes head of SHIELD and still being in a relationship with her.”

Or he could get a job outside of SHIELD. Maybe he could run for the Senate seat Calvin Chadwick was after.

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9 years ago

This article perfectly sums up some of the biggest problems and failures of season 2, particularly all the wasted narrative potential with Wilkes. Whitney’s character was great throughout the season, but the way they defeated her was so, so anticlimactic. The episode felt more like mid season comedy filler than a season finale. The only part that was exciting and not predictable was the ending with Thompson that’s setting up season 3.

@14: If that was meant to show he was “worthy”, I find that really annoying. Like, do they think they need to prove to the audience that he is a worthy successor to Steve Rogers before Peggy is allowed to hook up with him? Why can’t she just be with someone because she likes them and finds them attractive? Or I guess, if I were more charitable to the writers, maybe that’s just how Peggy rolls, needing to totally admire a dude and think he’s the most heroic hero out there before she gets involved.

 I find it also annoying that we’re supposed to think that Sousa was so much better than everyone else because he went to risk his life without consulting anyone that he was supposed to be working with. Yay? Because going off on solo suicide missions without any consultations with your teammates is the morally superior thing and everyone who doesn’t do it (that includes Peggy, I guess) sucks in comparison?

On another note, I have a question for the posters from USA. Was “shvitz” meaning sauna/steambath a word that was in regular use among non-Jewish Americans in the 1940s? Ever since Howard Stark’s speech about his background in episode 4 of season 1, there’s been a fan theory that his family were Jewish immigrants. I want to know if this is a canon confirmation, or at least nod. If yes, that easily puts it in top 2 or 3 most exciting things in this really underwhelming finale.

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9 years ago

My dad, who grew up as a WASP on Long Island in the 20s and 30s, was fluent in Yiddish terminology, and kept a yarmulke in his sock drawer until the day he died, just in case he was ever invited to a temple.  He had many Jewish friends in his youth, and a lot of exposure to the culture.  From the stories he told me, if you grew up in the greater NYC area in that era (as I think Howard Stark supposedly did), you were exposed to Jewish culture.  So I don’t think Stark’s use of the term necessarily means he was Jewish.  But you never know.  It was only in the last decade or so that the comic books began portraying Ben Grimm, the Thing from the Fantastic Four, as Jewish, even though Stan Lee said that was part of his backstory from the start, just never discussed.

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jm1978
9 years ago

At first I wasn’t too keen on the Peggy/Souza pairing but for some reason it hit me this episode that it does work because Souza is the anti-Cap. America. He started out physically fit but got injured in war, he is way more ethnic in comparison to Aryan Superman Steve Rogers, he is willing to put Peggy above his duty, and he can and does mess up instead of somehow always coming up on top. If he does found SHIELD alongside Peggy and Stark, it’ll be awesome. I’m also down with Dottie becoming a good guy despite all that she’s done. In my head, an older Dottie will recruit a young Natasha Romanov and you can’t convince me otherwise.

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9 years ago

@19 Just remember, the Steve Rogers that Peggy fell in love with was the skinny kid, brave enough to let himself be a guinea pig to help the war effort.  A physically challenged man who overcame those challenges through sheer determination.  It was a pre-Super Solider picture of Steve that she saved after the war.  So perhaps her two beaus had more in common than might first be apparent.

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jm1978
9 years ago

That’s a pretty good observation. There had to be some common traits in Souza and Cap, and their moral character is surely the main trait they share.

Also, now that I think about it, I want a mini-series about Edwin and Anna Jarvis raising Tony Stark while Howard is mostly absent doing his millionaire/scientist thing and running SHIELD.

ChristopherLBennett
9 years ago

@21/jm1978: Well, according to the MCU Wiki, Tony Stark was born in 1970. So there’d need to be a few decades’ worth of age makeup applied to James D’Arcy and Lotte Verbeek. Or else they’d have to be recast with older actors a la Howard.

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Karen K
9 years ago

@19  I’m pretty sure it was Hawkeye that recruited Natasha to Shield.  But maybe Dottie could have been recruited first as a precedent.

 

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9 years ago

Sorry for the double post. I don’t know if it’s this website or my tablet to blame.

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9 years ago

@18: Specifically, he said he grew up on Lower East Side. This is where that theory originated, because it was an immigrant neighborhood, with a large Ashkenazi Jewish community in particular in late 19th and early 20th century. I would post the link to a Tumblr post from last year that went into detail about that, but I’m on my tablet and have no idea how to copy paste in Android. (Can it even be done?)

Stark is an ambiguous family name, since it can be both English and German.

@19, 20: Peggy loved Steve Rogers, not Captain America.That’s what Peggy’s co-workers, inluding Sousa, kept misunderstanding.

The parallels they kept making between Sousa and Skinny Steve were one of the things that convinced me they were planning to have Sousa be her husband. (The other reasons being, 1) the narrative devices – Sousa thinking he doesn’t stand a chance with her, the contrived angst at the start of season 2 where you keep two people apart so they could get together later, while you introduce a Romantic False Lead. And 2) if she actually started a relationship with Wilkes, they would have to actually deal with the topic of racism in the 1940s which they’re clearly not prepared to do.) It’s funny, because  last year in early interviews about the upcoming season 2, the showrunners were saying that Peggy’s new love interest will be completely different from Steve, and that she won’t always go for the same type of guy… and they were telling the truth, since they were clearly referring to Wilkes, but it’s relationship they never actually intended to happen.

@21: Tony also had a mother, you know, Maria. I don’t know why so many people keep talking about Tony’s childhood as if Howard was a single parent.

@22: Howard was not recast with an older actor. He was recast with a younger actor. No one recasts a 30-something actor because his character is supposed to be in his 50s. Hayley Atwell wasn’t recast and played Peggy in her 60s and her 90s.

 

ChristopherLBennett
9 years ago

@25/Annara Snow: I’m perfectly well aware of the progression of Howard Stark actors, thank you. I wasn’t speaking in terms of real-world chronology, but in the sense of using different actors to represent the same character at different ages. Remember that John Slattery was brought back as Howard Stark in Ant-Man after Dominic Cooper had taken on the role in Captain America.

And I was simply presenting it as a possibility alongside the option of prosthetic makeup (or digital aging as was done with Atwell in The Winter Soldier). I wasn’t advocating that specific approach over the alternative, merely trying to be thorough in listing the possibilities.

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jm1978
9 years ago

@22: Yeah, you’re right. I like very much what the actors portraying Dottie, Anna and Jarvis have done with the characters, but it doesn’t work within the MCU timeframe. I still think it’d be an interesting premise for a one-off.

@23: I can live with Dottie being her mentor after being recruited by Hawkeye. No problem there :)

@24: Even if Tony’s mom raised him, he’s obviously still carrying some baggage from his relationship with his dad in the MCU movies and, well, since his A.I. is called JARVIS, I’d say it’s a fair bet that Edwin Jarvis was an important positive figure during his childhood. I’m not assuming that Mom Sark didn’t exist, I was just extrapolating from what the movies and TV shows have shown in the spirit of expressing how much I have enjoyed the work they actors have done in Agent Carter. Relax, your post came across a a bit pedantic and fun-killing. You know, nitpicks and all.

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9 years ago

@26: The only reason why they did that was because Slattery had already played Howard in Iron Man 2. If Cooper had been cast first, no one would have said: “We must now cast an older actor for middle aged/elderly Howard! Now Hayley Atwell, we can make her look 60 with some makeup, but that would just never work with Dominic Cooper, or James D’Arcy.” (Incidentally, Atwell is 4 years younger than Cooper, and 7 years younger than D’Arcy.) There is also a reason why they only used pictures of Cooper/young Howard in Captain America: Winter Soldier, even for newspaper clippings of his death: continuity.

@27: I’d say someone’s mom tends to be a big deal to them, not a nit to pick. You completely ignored her existence, since you said Howard was away and Anna and Edwin would be taking care of him because Howard was away… no mention of what his mother would be doing in the meantime, whether she also went off somewhere, or wasn’t caring, or was. He wasn’t cloned, you know. And probably also did not spring from his dad’s head like Athena from Zeus’. Although, I can’t blame you for ignoring that fact, when the Iron Man movies do as well.

I’m not sure what exactly is killing your fun? The idea that Tony had a mother? The idea that recasting Edwin and Anna Jarvis would be stupid and would never happen if they could get the original actors?

(BTW, if you want someone to relax, you know what you should not do? Tell them to “relax”. That’s something you should only do if you want to annoy people.)

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Admin
9 years ago

Hi everyone, please keep the tone of the discussion civil in tone. Everyone should feel free to disagree with ideas brought up in the post or the other comments without making those disagreements personal.

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9 years ago

“usual frivolity”? I disagree. Agent Carter might have a certain, obvious playfulness, but (as far as the genre goes) is not frivolous. And I wouldn’t be so sure that Jack Thompson is really dead. In a world endlessly searching for super soldiers, no one is more square-jawed and has a better looking patriotic file than our boy Jack.

@1 – Chris: Agreed on the lunch orders thing.

@8 – Athreeren: Good one.

@10 – Diane: Yeah, maybe he isn’t dead… but have we ever been told that they didn’t have any other siblings?

@17 – Annara: The Starks are originally from Westeros, Winterfell to be precise.

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Lee Jones
7 years ago

You could’ve said much the same about Buffy and Spike, and he ended up on her side eventually. And he’s hardly the only villain whose popularity with audiences and/or chemistry with the lead character led to a redemption arc.

 

Oh please.  You can also say the same about Buffy and Angel.  The latter is only a “good guy” due to a magic spell.  Without that spell, he would be a lot worse than Spike.

ChristopherLBennett
7 years ago

 @32/Lee Jones: Huh? How does what I said warrant an “Oh please?” My point was simply that it’s possible for two characters who start out as enemies to end up as allies. I don’t see how Angel’s backstory refutes that point. If anything, Angel is even more of an example of the trope than Spike is, because he switched between hero and villain multiple times. Plenty of Whedon characters have gone from villain to hero/ally or from hero/ally to villain, or from hero to villain and back again. So have plenty of characters in non-Whedon shows.

So if Agent Carter had continued, it would’ve been entirely possible for Dottie to become an ally of Peggy’s eventually. That was my actual point.

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7 years ago

Angel is not a good guy because of a spell. Plenty of people have a soul (if we accept its existence) and are monsters. He’s a good guy because he learned how to be one.